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Datamonkeh

PG Captain
Super Moderator
If you are looking to run a remote server, it pays to know who is reselling who. Most 'brands' have a number of sub brands pitched at different types of user, you usually have the main brand offering higher spec's/customisation options with managed options, then sub brands that offer off the shelf products with limited/no customisation. Understanding who's who can save you a small fortune each month.

BEWARE CANCELATION POLICY ON GERMAN PROVIDERS
They operate rollover contracting, if you've not given notice of your intention to cancel and sign up to a 12 month deal, they'll automatically renew you to a new 12 month deal. This seems to apply to all German providers. If taking a 12 month deal do the cancelation at the start - you can always withdraw it if you want later, but in this market it usually isn't a good idea to stay on the same hardware/deal for over 12 months, someone always had a better deal.

OVH
OVH is based in France, but have space in DC's all over the world, they offer managed options and higher prices/customisation with 500Mbit guaranteed, has a mid tier option with slightly lower guaranteed speeds via SoYouStart (SYS) at 250Mbit on a a gigabit port and budget options via Kimsufi with 100Mbit, generally regarded as having very good peering and is a popular choice with other people looking for seed boxes.

Links: OVH SoYouStart Kimsufi

Netcup
Another German host who offer a range of VPS (shared) and Root (dedicated resources) servers as well as some very expensive dedicated options. Value is decent on VPS/Shared and the peering seems to be better than Hetzner in anecdotal testing. Some debate over throttling of speeds if you average over a certain level and I have to say Hetzner Cloud is a better value option in my opinion as well as being a more modern/easy to use CP.

Links: Netcup

Hetzner
The other well German known budget option, main site offers a wide range of options, auctions side is good for preconfigured hardware, unfortunately prices have gone up as virtual currency miners rent cheap hardware to mine on. That's in the process of readjusting, so hopefully prices will drop sooner rather than later. Longer term the main site (with set-up fee) can work out better value. Hetzner has an upload cap starting at 20TB and going up the more you spend each month. If you commit to paying 1 euro or so a TB for over they'll let you spend/upload as much as you want. German hosts tend to take longer to verify you and are less tolerant of (for example) adult content. Non German nationals pay sales tax on-top of published prices. Now includes 'unlimited' bandwidth on all dedicated hardware.

Links: Hetzner Hetzner Robot Auctions

Myloc
Another German host who are less popular than Hetzner, main brand tends to focus on managed services, sub brands are Webtropia (3 options, can be customised) and ServDiscount (preconfigured ex. lease, like Hetzner Auctions). 300-500Mbit guaranteed on a gigabit port, no data quota. German hosts tend to take longer to verify you and are less tolerant of (for example) adult content. Non German nationals pay sales tax on-top of published prices.

Links: Myloc Webtropia ServDiscount

Online.net
Main brand has a wide range of options, sub brand is oneprovider, they offer cheap packages on paper (2.5Gbit port speed on a cheap box). Support can be slow via oneprovider if they need to refer to online.net, server speeds can also vary significantly even in the same DC/corridor. When (if?) it works, it's OK value. Guaranteed speeds range from 300-500mbit depending on the offer, realistically a Kimsufi box has been shown to manage the same sort of throughput over extended tests.

Links: Online.net OneProvider

I'm bound to have missed someone, my experience is more with the budget dedicated hosts rather than the higher end, so feel free to contribute - also if you use someone, please feel free to submit benchmark results in the 'Post Your Benchmarks' thread.

Updated 13/10/18 to include Netcup and mention Hetzner's new bandwidth policy.
 
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DarkSteel

PG Ambassador
PG Donor
If you are looking to run a remote server, it pays to know who is reselling who. Most 'brands' have a number of sub brands pitched at different types of user, you usually have the main brand offering higher spec's/customisation options with managed options, then sub brands that offer off the shelf products with limited/no customisation. Understanding who's who can save you a small fortune each month.

OVH
OVH is based in France, but have space in DC's all over the world, they offer managed options and higher prices/customisation with 500Mbit guaranteed, has a mid tier option with slightly lower guaranteed speeds via SoYouStart (SYS) at 250Mbit on a a gigabit port and budget options via Kimsufi with 100Mbit, generally regarded as having very good peering and is a popular choice with other people looking for seed boxes.

Links: OVH SoYouStart Kimsufi

Hetzner
The other well German known budget option, main site offers a wide range of options, auctions side is good for preconfigured hardware, unfortunately prices have gone up as virtual currency miners rent cheap hardware to mine on. That's in the process of readjusting, so hopefully prices will drop sooner rather than later. Longer term the main site (with set-up fee) can work out better value. Hetzner has an upload cap starting at 20TB and going up the more you spend each month. If you commit to paying 1 euro or so a TB for over they'll let you spend/upload as much as you want. German hosts tend to take longer to verify you and are less tolerant of (for example) adult content. Non German nationals pay sales tax on-top of published prices.

Links: Hetzner Hetzner Robot Auctions

Myloc
Another German host who are less popular than Hetzner, main brand tends to focus on managed services, sub brands are Webtropia (3 options, can be customised) and ServDiscount (preconfigured ex. lease, like Hetzner Auctions). 300-500Mbit guaranteed on a gigabit port, no data quota. German hosts tend to take longer to verify you and are less tolerant of (for example) adult content. Non German nationals pay sales tax on-top of published prices.

Links: Myloc Webtropia ServDiscount

Online.net
Main brand has a wide range of options, sub brand is oneprovider, they offer cheap packages on paper (2.5Gbit port speed on a cheap box). Support can be sow via oneprovider if they need to refer to online.net, server speeds can also vary significantly even in the same DC/corridor. When (if?) it works, it's OK value. Guaranteed speeds range from 300-500mbit depending on the offer, realistically a Kimsufi box has been shown to manage the same sort of throughput over extended tests.

Links: Online.net OneProvider

I'm bound to have missed someone, my experience is more with the budget dedicated hosts rather than the higher end, so feel free to contribute - also if you use someone, please feel free to submit benchmark results in the 'Post Your Benchmarks' thread.

This is an excellent write up! I haven't tried myloc yet
 

cloud07

PG Overlord
Member
If you are looking to run a remote server, it pays to know who is reselling who. Most 'brands' have a number of sub brands pitched at different types of user, you usually have the main brand offering higher spec's/customisation options with managed options, then sub brands that offer off the shelf products with limited/no customisation. Understanding who's who can save you a small fortune each month.

OVH
OVH is based in France, but have space in DC's all over the world, they offer managed options and higher prices/customisation with 500Mbit guaranteed, has a mid tier option with slightly lower guaranteed speeds via SoYouStart (SYS) at 250Mbit on a a gigabit port and budget options via Kimsufi with 100Mbit, generally regarded as having very good peering and is a popular choice with other people looking for seed boxes.

Links: OVH SoYouStart Kimsufi

Hetzner
The other well German known budget option, main site offers a wide range of options, auctions side is good for preconfigured hardware, unfortunately prices have gone up as virtual currency miners rent cheap hardware to mine on. That's in the process of readjusting, so hopefully prices will drop sooner rather than later. Longer term the main site (with set-up fee) can work out better value. Hetzner has an upload cap starting at 20TB and going up the more you spend each month. If you commit to paying 1 euro or so a TB for over they'll let you spend/upload as much as you want. German hosts tend to take longer to verify you and are less tolerant of (for example) adult content. Non German nationals pay sales tax on-top of published prices.

Links: Hetzner Hetzner Robot Auctions

Myloc
Another German host who are less popular than Hetzner, main brand tends to focus on managed services, sub brands are Webtropia (3 options, can be customised) and ServDiscount (preconfigured ex. lease, like Hetzner Auctions). 300-500Mbit guaranteed on a gigabit port, no data quota. German hosts tend to take longer to verify you and are less tolerant of (for example) adult content. Non German nationals pay sales tax on-top of published prices.

Links: Myloc Webtropia ServDiscount

Online.net
Main brand has a wide range of options, sub brand is oneprovider, they offer cheap packages on paper (2.5Gbit port speed on a cheap box). Support can be sow via oneprovider if they need to refer to online.net, server speeds can also vary significantly even in the same DC/corridor. When (if?) it works, it's OK value. Guaranteed speeds range from 300-500mbit depending on the offer, realistically a Kimsufi box has been shown to manage the same sort of throughput over extended tests.

Links: Online.net OneProvider

I'm bound to have missed someone, my experience is more with the budget dedicated hosts rather than the higher end, so feel free to contribute - also if you use someone, please feel free to submit benchmark results in the 'Post Your Benchmarks' thread.
Who do you utilize or end up going with?
 
Thread starter #4
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Datamonkeh

Datamonkeh

PG Captain
Super Moderator
This is an excellent write up! I haven't tried myloc yet
If you are prepared to jump through a few hoops to convince them you reside in Germany, they are worth it.

Who do you utilize or end up going with?
I currently use Myloc, over the years i’ve used all of the above. Have a look at the speedtest post linked at the bottom of the first post for speed tests/more details.
 

Admin9705

Administrator
Project Manager
If you are prepared to jump through a few hoops to convince them you reside in Germany, they are worth it.

I currently use Myloc, over the years i’ve used all of the above. Have a look at the speedtest post linked at the bottom of the first post for speed tests/more details.
Nice write up. Saw that you changed your info :D haha; stuff like that is always front page worthy :D Two i haven't used, but agree with your points on the servers such as OVH and online.net
 
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Thread starter #6
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Datamonkeh

Datamonkeh

PG Captain
Super Moderator
Nice write up. Saw that you changed your info :D haha; stuff like that is always front page worthy :D Two i haven't used, but agree with your points on the servers such as OVH and online.net
Didn’t have much choice after you pushed it to article status :) Besides, most Americans have no clue what crisps are, let alone Worcestershire Sauce.

If you have the money to burn, premium bandwidth, 10Gbit + NVMe SSD’s are cooler, but for your average friends/family set-up, low end is more than adequate.
 

ahseyo

PG Ambassador
Member
Don't forget leaseweb :D
they are for the more high end users, but with excellent network and peering, with high bandwidth caps at 100 TB a month.
Expect fast peering to NL servers and even german servers as they are NL based with their datacenters.
 
Thread starter #10
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Datamonkeh

Datamonkeh

PG Captain
Super Moderator
Don't forget leaseweb :D
they are for the more high end users, but with excellent network and peering, with high bandwidth caps at 100 TB a month.
Expect fast peering to NL servers and even german servers as they are NL based with their datacenters.
True, LeaseWeb and Nforce hosts are nice, but I generally put them above what most will run for this in terms of price/peering, it’s like throwing an OVH 10Gbit SSD based box with premium bandwidth into the mix - at retail you could have a basic SYS based box or a ServDiscount box for a year for what you’ll pay for a single month, it’s generally massive overkill. That and if you have a look at the benchmark thread, you’ll see a lot of the hosts mentioned aren’t too shabby to mainland EU.
 

ahseyo

PG Ambassador
Member
True, LeaseWeb and Nforce hosts are nice, but I generally put them above what most will run for this in terms of price/peering, it’s like throwing an OVH 10Gbit SSD based box with premium bandwidth into the mix - at retail you could have a basic SYS based box or a ServDiscount box for a year for what you’ll pay for a single month, it’s generally massive overkill. That and if you have a look at the benchmark thread, you’ll see a lot of the hosts mentioned aren’t too shabby to mainland EU.
my problem alot of the time is price vs what their networks offer.
most of the time its very expensive, and not very good networks.
hardware is just about decent, like with ovh, but severely overpriced network even when cognet doesnt peer very well across some isp's.
many dedicated hosting providers are just resellers of leaseweb or nforce at this point as they usually don't have any networks of their own, and their networks are also too expensive for what they're asking for network wise in regards to competition like Hetzner, and buying directly from the hosting provider.
does Myloc have their own networks and are they unlimited bandwidth? I might consider trying them out. The only provider on the list I haven't given a go.
 
Thread starter #12
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Datamonkeh

Datamonkeh

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Super Moderator
my problem alot of the time is price vs what their networks offer.
most of the time its very expensive, and not very good networks.
hardware is just about decent, like with ovh, but severely overpriced network even when cognet doesnt peer very well across some isp's.
many dedicated hosting providers are just resellers of leaseweb or nforce at this point as they usually don't have any networks of their own, and their networks are also too expensive for what they're asking for network wise in regards to competition like Hetzner, and buying directly from the hosting provider.
does Myloc have their own networks and are they unlimited bandwidth? I might consider trying them out. The only provider on the list I haven't given a go.
Most are resellers, at best you pay a premium for them to bump you to another backbone provider. For me it comes down to simple question.

Do you pay €50 for a decent box/news provider with poorer peering who lets you pull 300-350+GB/hr 24/7 no issues, or do you pay €120 and have an effective cap of 138GB/hr average or risk burning through it in a few weeks?

If you ignore the cost side for the moment and don’t need to move a lot (eg 100TB+) of data, your way is quicker, however in PG terms, things like the 750GB/day (22.5TB/m) upload to GSuite are a consideration too, combine that with ratio considerations as well as storage requirements that come with it, and suddenly 100TB isn’t actually that much. Go back to the cost side and you pay a hefty premium for it. Two decades ago p2p sounded great coming from a BBS/FTP background, now I can see the advantage in paying a small sub each month for news/storage and an easy life vs trying to maintain ratio on a few different sites.

I don’t deny what you’re choosing is quicker/better, but it comes at a significant price premium, if you need to pull a lot of data each month, my way is a lot cheaper and overall quicker, but you’d likely slaughter me racing short term.
 

ahseyo

PG Ambassador
Member
Most are resellers, at best you pay a premium for them to bump you to another backbone provider. For me it comes down to simple question.

Do you pay €50 for a decent box/news provider with poorer peering who lets you pull 300-350+GB/hr 24/7 no issues, or do you pay €120 and have an effective cap of 138GB/hr average or risk burning through it in a few weeks?

If you ignore the cost side for the moment and don’t need to move a lot (eg 100TB+) of data, your way is quicker, however in PG terms, things like the 750GB/day (22.5TB/m) upload to GSuite are a consideration too, combine that with ratio considerations as well as storage requirements that come with it, and suddenly 100TB isn’t actually that much. Go back to the cost side and you pay a hefty premium for it. Two decades ago p2p sounded great coming from a BBS/FTP background, now I can see the advantage in paying a small sub each month for news/storage and an easy life vs trying to maintain ratio on a few different sites.

I don’t deny what you’re choosing is quicker/better, but it comes at a significant price premium, if you need to pull a lot of data each month, my way is a lot cheaper and overall quicker, but you’d likely slaughter me racing short term.
peering data is important not just for torrenting but also plex connectivity as well with running a transcode :p
 
Thread starter #14
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Datamonkeh

Datamonkeh

PG Captain
Super Moderator
peering data is important not just for torrenting but also plex connectivity as well with running a transcode :p
Again true, but unless you’re in the P4S game with a geographically diverse user base, anything with decent peering to your location is going to work up to a point. For your average friends/family server of say 25 users the concurrent user count is rarely going to be over 20%, obviously if that’s direct playing a 50GB remux, it’s a bit more intensive than a 5GB rip. I reckon I could scale up my concurrent user count to without much of an issue, but I spread it over multiple servers.
 

alex8888

Lex
Super Moderator
Beginner here with Plexguide and hosted servers. Is the consensus that a dedicated box is necessary, and that a VPS isn't going to perform well enough?

I've been looking at Contabo https://contabo.com/?show=vps ... have not tried the service yet, but from specs they seem to have a decent price/performance offering.

Interested in your views?
 
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Thread starter #16
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Datamonkeh

Datamonkeh

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Super Moderator
You don't need a dedicated server, a few of us use Hetzner Cloud and the spec's on the host you link to look good - but the low end plans are only 100mbit.
 

neik

PG Overlord
Member
As long as the server is running - no matter what it is doing - you will be charged. AFAIK even it is turned off but the resources are still allocated then you will be charged as well - which seems absolutely fair to me.
 

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