Ideas - 'Stable' releases changes. | PlexGuide.com

Ideas 'Stable' releases changes.

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murkr

Experienced
Original poster
Donor
Nov 5, 2018
99
32
So, I'm probably on day 5 straight of trying to get this to work most of the day, I appreciate all of the hard work, but what is supposed to be an easy to run script is making things more difficult. (Running v7 on old server)

I'm on a fresh install from 8.3.5 and tried 8.3.6 upgrade. Over the last few days I've spent most of the day wiping and starting all over again and re configuring again. Starting from 8.2.5 and every revision before 8.3 and then every revision from 8.3.4 to 8.3.6. The problem I have is that nothing is moving with pgmove.

I appreciate the hard work and the hours that everyone is putting into this project. And I have supported both by offering help to the community and donating.

I started on version 7 which I have on my old server, and had a week overlap between that and my new server whilst its set up, now I've ended up having to pay for 2 servers because the latest stable version, isn't very stable. I went from one of the earlier version in 7 which worked, and we were asked to upgrade to the latest version of 7 so that in the future we can back up and restore to any version, reluctantly I did that because I wanted to possible move servers in the future. Having reconfigured what was needed, 3 days later version 8 was released and we were told version 7 was no longer going to be supported or able to install to.

Again I really do appreciate the hard work and I'm giving my constructive criticism.

But I think I speak for many when I say the way things are done should be changed, there's no point releasing a version that 2-3 people are going to test for a couple of days before releasing a stable version and removing the option to install a working version, because you think oh well it says stable let me upgrade, and then nothing works. Different scenario's and setups need to be run by a number of users for days/weeks before you can say it's stable surely? There's no way to be able to tell that every function is stable when only half of the features have been tested. (PG Move in this instance, but as mentioned it has been different things).

I've been active in the forums and I've seen others say to each other "you've joined at a wrong time", this was about 2-3 weeks ago and more stable releases have gone out since.

I hope you can see past the rant of my message, and see that I'm trying to offer ideas rather than just saying forget this, and using a different installer. At the end of the day it's not just 1 or 2 blips this has been going on for a while now.
 

thepj

Experienced
Staff
Nov 13, 2018
95
50
I disagree with almost everything you have said above, and I will constructively respond in bullet points as it is easier for me.

  • This project is an amalgamation of many scripts put together
  • You can do everything this script does, without this script, you just have to do it all one at a time and manually configure it all
  • Creating a single base from which others can branch off of is the basis for any project, period
  • The Fork option is available if you so chose to use it and deviate away from the base package and install
  • Your custom setup, is a custom setup, which is a custom setup, and is your custom setup. Adding everyone custom setup into a very large projects has the downside of causing unintended issues down the chain. You want to add 4x NVMe and do custom renaming and moving things from one drive to another while using NZBGet and SABnzb so you can download more faster and fill up your server? That's on you bro, the majority of users throw up plex/sonarr/radarr/nzbget/sabnzb and call it a day, and that is the core/focus group
  • Anything custom you do that is stable, make sure you have forked the project, this way @Admin9705 and @subse7en can take that code already created and merge it into the main project. Everything custom that is forked and added back in needs to be tested. Having a large beta period for everything just isn't something a project of this size could ever do
  • If you don't want change, don't update. If the new features and fixes are what you are looking for, then stay on that version. There are users that are version 5 and 6 and 7 still. Fork the project and use that version to your hearts content, or set it all up on your own, no one is stopping you
  • Just like Windows or Linux, upgrading isn't always the best path for the smoothest experience. I upgraded from 8.1 to 8.2 something and it didn't work out well for me. So I created a new GCE and started over fresh, and 30 minutes later everything was the way it was before, but uploads and downloads and everything else was smoother

In the end the purpose of this project is to combine multiple independent scripts into a single package to ease deployment to a large group of people that have multiple needs. There is a base user group that fits 90% of use cases, and you might not be in that. If you want to do something super custom outside of what the wiki shows for initial setup, that is on you, and if it doesn't work, why would it be the projects fault?

/2cents
 
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murkr

Experienced
Original poster
Donor
Nov 5, 2018
99
32
Hi

I appreciate your response and I do take you points on board. My set up is not custom in any way, its following steps by steps.

My point, is that there are people who have just joined for example, go to install it and nothing works. They are then told they're doing something wrong. And spend hours and hours wiping and starting again, the stable version should be stable and every aspect checked as much as possible right?

So in my shoes I upgraded to a version of 7.* to another version of 7* as it was needed for compatibility moving forward, so I did that, messed around to get it to work, and it did, a few days later, another version came out and it was the same thing, we needed this so that we can upgrade from that to any new version, wow sounds good I'm all up for thinking ahead (I know that no one is forcing me, but if the old installer is going to disappear, I need to keep up).

So now I get a new server, I go to move across, and 8.2.5 there's problems, some fixes and then again taking me up to 8.2.7. I get told forget that and upgrade to 8.3 (which was still on BETA at that stage). Only to find out, it still doesn't work 100%.


In the middle of all of this, I'm under the impression that it must be me, so I'm wiping and starting again, wiping and starting again.

So

1. Why can't the old installers still be made available, even if not supported?
2. Why are mini projects not completely tested (by several people for several days) in BETA before taking them out of BETA after they've been tested by a handful of people who have tried a few things for a couple of days or so , and then removing old installers which worked to replace them with something that is buggy?
 
Last edited:

thepj

Experienced
Staff
Nov 13, 2018
95
50
Hi

1. Why can't the old installers still be made available, even if not supported?
2. Why are mini projects not completely tested in BETA before taking them out of BETA (by several people for several days), and then removing old installers which worked to replace them with something that is buggy?
Good questions. Asking for the old installers to be made available is a good request. You also have to think about it from the point of supportability. Just because we say there is no support, doesn't stop anyone from posting on the forums or discord and asking for it. Hell, there are people that say they don't have custom setups, and then after Admin and others have spent hours helping, they have a completely custom setup.

Your second point is called regression testing. That is easy to do when you have an application or even an extremely LARGE application that you own the code and developed the code for. Writing a regression testing application or script for a project like this (Where everything IS its own custom script developed by someone else that may or may not be open sources, and may or may not work well with everything) would take an extremely long time. The beta period tests the overall functions. Does it deploy, does the mounts mount, can I deploy applications like plex/sonarr/radarr and so on. I can tell you that I do take part in the betas and I DO use them on my production servers, so when they don't work, my wife and family let me know, and I let the appropriate teams know. Testing every single thing, every single time, with every combination, and every setup isn't feasible in a project like this. You could ask the Plex dev team to work on things that benefit Plex and they would. However you are asking a project that is based on collectively grouping many other scripts to do support for things that aren't theirs.

I can't make this any more clear than this: This project creates a simple deployment that allows you to deploy other projects from a central location. It is all about AUTOMATION, it isn't about INTEGRATION. The integration portion is on the user, if Radarr isn't working with NZBget, we do our best to help you figure it out. Why wouldn't you just go to the NZBget or Radarr forums/wiki/github page and ask them for help?

You have a warped sense of what support you feel you are entitled to receive, and I think that educating you what the real expectations are can help you benefit from this and other projects.
 

murkr

Experienced
Original poster
Donor
Nov 5, 2018
99
32
Good questions. Asking for the old installers to be made available is a good request. You also have to think about it from the point of supportability. Just because we say there is no support, doesn't stop anyone from posting on the forums or discord and asking for it. Hell, there are people that say they don't have custom setups, and then after Admin and others have spent hours helping, they have a completely custom setup.

Your second point is called regression testing. That is easy to do when you have an application or even an extremely LARGE application that you own the code and developed the code for. Writing a regression testing application or script for a project like this (Where everything IS its own custom script developed by someone else that may or may not be open sources, and may or may not work well with everything) would take an extremely long time. The beta period tests the overall functions. Does it deploy, does the mounts mount, can I deploy applications like plex/sonarr/radarr and so on. I can tell you that I do take part in the betas and I DO use them on my production servers, so when they don't work, my wife and family let me know, and I let the appropriate teams know. Testing every single thing, every single time, with every combination, and every setup isn't feasible in a project like this. You could ask the Plex dev team to work on things that benefit Plex and they would. However you are asking a project that is based on collectively grouping many other scripts to do support for things that aren't theirs.

I can't make this any more clear than this: This project creates a simple deployment that allows you to deploy other projects from a central location. It is all about AUTOMATION, it isn't about INTEGRATION. The integration portion is on the user, if Radarr isn't working with NZBget, we do our best to help you figure it out. Why wouldn't you just go to the NZBget or Radarr forums/wiki/github page and ask them for help?

You have a warped sense of what support you feel you are entitled to receive, and I think that educating you what the real expectations are can help you benefit from this and other projects.
Sure, I know this is just a community based thing, but as you said this is all about Automation. I should be able to come in and install the stable version follow the wiki, and I'm up and running. I came in with a new install (again after being told to upgrade to the latest install of V7 (twice in less than a week) for compatibility moving forward and then a few days later reading that we have until x date to before V7 install goes and we should move to V8 but not advised to upgrade to start fresh. Right.... what happened to upgrade to this and spend time messing around (by messing around I mean make the changes asked from us for the upgrade). So I didn't upgrade.

Now only about a month after the last install, I have to install V8 and I need to start fresh with most things. With what should have been automated.

Same as for example Windows will end support for Windows 7 soon, of course people will ask but support would be limited and fixes dont need to be made for it, but it should be stable before moving on. But people always have the option to go back to that when support ends should they wish to, because for example the software they have only works on Windows 7. In my instance, it would have been nice to install V7, restore back ups and bobs my uncle, 5 days saved.

V8.2 which was listed as stable, had several bugs. So much that 8.3 was rushed out without real testing of PG move. I was told it was my set up, or I did something wrong. Others started having the same issues, and then it was no longer my set up so spent the night with the coder trying to figure out (after spending days and days of wiping and setting up again and again, rescanning libraries which takes hours etc).

I am under no illusion that I'm not entitled to any support, I'm simply expressing my disappointment and hoping to help fix things moving forward.
 

wpjonesnh

Citizen
Donor
Dec 27, 2018
9
5
Just wanted to add a different perspective here:

I can't make this any more clear than this: This project creates a simple deployment that allows you to deploy other projects from a central location. It is all about AUTOMATION, it isn't about INTEGRATION. The integration portion is on the user, if Radarr isn't working with NZBget, we do our best to help you figure it out. Why wouldn't you just go to the NZBget or Radarr forums/wiki/github page and ask them for help?
In some ways I agree with both of you BUT more so with thepj BECAUSE I have an issue that is killing me where even with 32GB of memory in my system with well over 20GB still available, I am hitting an issue where my system is consuming almost 5GB of swap space and being an Administrator, while I understand the need for it, I hate swap space. Point being though, is that I am not expecting the PG guys to help me sort out why the system is using so much swap because it is outside the scope of what their intentions are. Their (regression) testing is based purely on the automation/installation that their work/script provides. I am not trying to drag this on and I am sorry for this late reply but after reading the thread, I just felt the need to chime in with a different perspective.

Regards
 

murkr

Experienced
Original poster
Donor
Nov 5, 2018
99
32
Just wanted to add a different perspective here:



In some ways I agree with both of you BUT more so with thepj BECAUSE I have an issue that is killing me where even with 32GB of memory in my system with well over 20GB still available, I am hitting an issue where my system is consuming almost 5GB of swap space and being an Administrator, while I understand the need for it, I hate swap space. Point being though, is that I am not expecting the PG guys to help me sort out why the system is using so much swap because it is outside the scope of what their intentions are. Their (regression) testing is based purely on the automation/installation that their work/script provides. I am not trying to drag this on and I am sorry for this late reply but after reading the thread, I just felt the need to chime in with a different perspective.

Regards
Hey

I'm not a fan of swappiness too.
Try this:
"sudo sysctl vm.swappiness=10"

If that does the job then change it in the config "nano /etc/sysctl.conf"

I think more so to the point, it's the fact that I spent 5 days straight that bugged because I was initially told the issues were on my side. And they weren't, there were 3 major bugs and 1 minor bug during that time. And when you have a 16TB library, it takes a long time to get it all set up again. Anyway not going to go on, but lets learn from this please... I know this was also raised by another user about a month ago.
 

wpjonesnh

Citizen
Donor
Dec 27, 2018
9
5
Hey

I'm not a fan of swappiness too.
Try this:
"sudo sysctl vm.swappiness=10"

If that does the job then change it in the config "nano /etc/sysctl.conf"

I think more so to the point, it's the fact that I spent 5 days straight that bugged because I was initially told the issues were on my side. And they weren't, there were 3 major bugs and 1 minor bug during that time. And when you have a 16TB library, it takes a long time to get it all set up again. Anyway not going to go on, but lets learn from this please... I know this was also raised by another user about a month ago.
Thanks for the tip and I feel your pain! I've had to rebuild my library one too many times myself!( ~15TB Library)
 
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